A really useful tool

Julia's DNA test has really got us going again on the family history.

Some time ago at the Knitting and Stitching show in Birmingham we happened to talk to the people on the stand of the Nuneaton and North Warwickshire Family History Society. (www.nnwfhs.org.uk) Nothing to do with our family connections and nothing to do with knitting or stitching either. But there you go.

We bought from them what has proved to be a most useful publication - The Ultimate Portable Family History Record Book. This is the most useful layout for a family tree that I've ever come across, and I really recommend it. I've added in all the ancestors we know about, and now we can set about filling in all the gaps.

Ancestry DNA

Well this has been an interesting day.

Julia decided to have an Ancestry DNA test and today we looked at the results. We didn't find any near relatives we didn't know about, so we ploughed through about half of the not so near ones and found some useful clues for our research.

Oddly someone  (with whom with have a 4th cousin DNA match) had added about 200 photographs to the Hamilton family tree. Julia has messaged this person find out more. We have now been in contact and she has told us something of her family. So we are now on the hunt to find out how we are related.

Getting bogged down in great great grandparents

When I began procrastinating over the family history it was because I had allowed myself to get bogged down over Ann Worrall and James Timmins. I don't think I can get any further with her for now until I start looking and the next generation back, so this is what I know.

Ann Worrall one of my eight great great grandmothers was born in 1823 before registration started in 1836 and we therefore do not have a birth certificate for her. However later censuses show that she was born in Arley near Nuneaton in Warwickshire.

We know that Ann’s maiden name was Worrall because it is given clearly on the birth certificates of her children Cornelius and Eliza Jane. And the father’s name is given correctly as James. Ann Worrall appears to be a common name but I can’t find a record of an Ann Worrall marrying anyone called Timmins.

James and Ann had 7 children

George             1843 a whitesmith

Cornelius          1844 a whitesmith

Elizabeth           1847

James              1849 a whitesmith (our great grandfather James 4^th )

Eliza Jane         1851

Mary                 1854

Jane                 1856

It shows a distinct lack of imagination to call one child Elizabeth, one Jane and a third Eliza Jane

The family lived at a number of addresses in west Bromwich. In 1851 and 1861 they were in Thomas Street and in 1871 they were in George Street. In 1851 they had a married couple Thomas and Rebecca Morgan as lodgers. He was a stone miner. Rebecca may have been James sister. Her birth dates fit. In 1861 Thomas Worrall aged 11 months was staying with them. He was born in Willenhall and was presumably related. In 1871 their baby granddaughter Patience Jane Timmins who was born in Yorkshire was with them. Thomas Worrall doesn’t show in the area in the 1871 census and a 5 year old called Patience Timmins died in West Bromwich in 1876.

James died on 11^th March 1879 in Overend Street. He died from Phthisis Pulmonalis which is an archaic term for tuberculosis. Ann died of a cerebral haemorrhage on 8^th August 1884. At the time she was living at 5 Herbert street which appears to have been almshouses.

By deed of 1869 Ann Murdock of West Bromwich settled in trust land south of Herbert Street where she had recently erected eleven alms-houses and a boardroom for trustees' meetings to be called the Spon Lane Trust Almshouses. Each alms-house was to be occupied by a poor woman, though a husband and wife or two women could share one; no inmate was to be under sixty. A resident matron was to be appointed. The foundress also gave £100 for maintenance.

From: 'West Bromwich: Charities for the poor', A History of the County of Stafford: Volume 17: Offlow hundred (part) (1976), pp. 83-86. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=36171

 

Naughty Uncle Jack

It's been over four years since I last posted on family history. My sister and I are just picking up the threads again, and we've started with a difficult one.

My mother used to talk about her Uncle Jack, who was a favourite of hers, but there was a mystery. A couple of years ago my sister and I visited some Perry relatives who confirmed some of Mom's story. So we decided to try to find out what we could. We've drawn a lot of blanks but this is what we know.

What we know and what we don’t know.

John Percy Walter Morris

Born  October 1896 (Wordsley) Baptised 4^th November 1896

My mother always called him Uncle Jack. Written on the back of his war photograph is Johnny Morris.

Served in the 1^st World War. South Staffs Regiment. Got the basic war medals.

What did he do for a living after he left Stourbridge? He is a 14 year old errand boy in the 1911 census. At the time of his marriage he is a watchmaker and living at 10 New Street Stourbridge, the address of his father’s shop.

Married Nellie Westwood,  Stourbridge 1924. They were married at St Thomas Stourbridge. Nellie is a domestic living at 26 the Oak Kingswinford. The marriage is witnessed by his brother Frank and Eli Millward who lives at no 1 the Oak. Her father was a bricklayer and Eli a brickmaker. It seems that the Oak was a brickyard.

Divorced 1926. John Hennel was co-respondent. It seems the only way we can see the court record is to go to the National Archives in Kew The reference is J77/2292/1797

Moved to London Why? When?

Married again in London? Kingston on Thames? Richmond on Thames? Visited in one of those places by my mother in 1939.

Is there a child from his first marriage as my father suggested that we haven’t found yet? The Nellie Morris we found born in 1923 is not the right one. Her parents were James Morris and Alice Weaver.

Are there children from his second marriage?

Visited the Perry family in the 1950s, was clearly well off, though it was suggested that he was wanted by the police for something.

What did he do that he was wanted by the police?

Died Where? When?

More about George Timmins

This from Mandy Tedstone

The Question about George Timmins, West Bromwich Albion footballer...He was in fact related to us. His Father Cornelius Worrall Timmins b,1844 Married to Lucy Stephens was the brother of our James Timmins b,1849 which makes him Cousin to Lily (Gerty)

James Timmins (1821-1879) (James the 3rd)

Last year I began a project to work backwards filling in all the gaps in the direct ancestors. After a gap of a year I am taking that up again. I had reached the great great grandparents, of whom there are 16, and had already posted Samuel Hamlet and Sarah Whitehouse, and William Mills and Elizabeth Webb on the paternal side. James Timmins (the 3rd) is the next on my list.

James was born in 1821 before registration started in 1836 and we therefore do not have a birth certificate for him or for his wife Ann Worrall. However later censuses show that he was born in West Bromwich.

 

The IGI shows only one James Timmins christened on 8^th July 1821 in West Bromwich. His parents are shown as James Timmins and Jane Timmins, and I have them living in West Bromwich in 1841.

 

I haven’t found James the 3^rd  and Ann on the 1841 census, which isn’t unusual, and its possible they weren’t married by then as their first child was born in 1843,. There is a Timmins family living in Thomas Street in 1841 and as the household head is also called James and is a bayonet maker (a precursor of spring maker), we can guess that this is his parents and siblings. Where James was that night we shall never know. He could have been missed off by the enumerator or staying somewhere else where they didn’t bother to include him.

 

There is a bit of a mystery. On James 4^th’s birth certificate his father’s name is given as George . Is it possible that James 3^rd was also known as George? It’s unlikely as he had a brother called George.

We know that Ann’s maiden name was Worrall because it is given clearly on the birth certificates of her children Cornelius and Eliza Jane. And the father’s name is given correctly as James. Ann Worrall appears to be a common name but neither Find My Past nor IGI has a ecord of an Ann Worrall marrying anyone called Timmins. However I have found a marriage record for an Ann Worrall in 1841 in Warwickshire, although it doesn’t suggest a husband’s name (sod’s law). I have sent for the certificate, so we’ll see if it’s the right one.

 

Like several of his sons and grandsons James was a whitesmith. In the 1851 census he is described as a spring balance maker and in 1861 as a whitesmith.

 

James and Ann had 7 children

 George             1843 a whitesmith

Cornelius          1844 a whitesmith

Elizabeth           1847

James              1849 a whitesmith (our ancestor James 4^th )

Eliza Jane         1851

Mary                 1854

Jane                 1856

 

It shows a distinct lack of imagination to call one child Elizabeth, one Jane and a third Eliza Jane

 

The family lived at a number of addresses in West Bromwich. In 1851 and 1861 they were in Thomas Street and in 1871 they were in George Street. In 1851 they had a married couple Thomas and Rebecca Morgan as lodgers. He was a stone miner. Rebecca may have been James sister. Her birth dates fit. In 1861 Thomas Worrall aged 11 months was staying with them. He was born in Willenhall and was presumably related. In 1871 their baby granddaughter Patience Jane Timmins who was born in Yorkshire was with them. Thomas Worrall doesn’t show in the area in the 1871 census and a 5 year old called Patience Timmins died in West Bromwich in 1876.

 

James died on 11^th March 1879 in Overend Street. He died from Phthisis Pulmonalis which is an archaic term for tuberculosis. Ann died of a cerebral haemorrhage on 8^th August 1884. At the time she was living at 5 Herbert street which appears to have been almshouses.

 

George Timmins who played football for West Bromwich Albion

Some people in the family think that George Timmins who played for West Bromwich Albion was one of my grandmother’s brothers. This is not so.

Lily Gertrude Hamilton (nee Timmins) ( 1890-1969) had seven brothers, one of whom was called George.

Thomas            1867-1948

Harry                1876-1940

Albert               1877-1882

Arthur               1876-?

George             1881-?

Albert J             1884-?

Alfred               1886-1924

This George appears on the census in 1901 living with his parents in Overend Street and working as a whitesmith. He does not appear in the 1911 census, (by which time both his parents are dead) but I can’t find a record of his death. He may have moved away from West Bromwich.

Gert’s father James was born in 1848, so was a contemporary of George Timmins the footballer. He worked at Salter’s as a whitesmith.  His parents James (also a whitesmith) and Ann had 7 children including a George who was born in 1843 and was – guess what, a whitesmith.

George Timmins the footballer was born in West Bromwich in 1858. The West Bromwich Strollers club was formed in 1879 by a group of young men from the Salter's. Initially they played cricket at Dartmouth Park but in 1882 they decided to form the West Bromwich Albion football club. George who worked at the factory, joined the club. He played in three consecutive FA Cup Finals at left half, leaving in 1891 to join Old Hill Wanderers. He worked at Salters, as did our ancestors, and therefore he was probably a whitesmith, so he was probably also related in some way, but Timmins is a common name in West Bromwich, and unless someone really wants me to follow him up, I'm only really prepared to spend the money on certificates for the immediate family.